Below is a transcript of an episode of The Marathon Podcast. It’s been lightly condensed and edited for clarity. You can watch a video version of the episode above, or via our YouTube channel (subscribe here), or on Spotify, which now supports video podcasts. You can listen to the episode in the embedded player below, or on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
Marathon Handbook Podcast: Boston Instant Reactions
Michael Doyle (00:10)
This is the Marathon Handbook podcast, and this is a very special live instant reaction pod. Live from Boston, Massachusetts, not far from the finish line. I am joined as always by 2025 Boston Marathon Finisher, Caitlin Tosse. I feel like there should be like an applause right now. Please. done. And.
Katelyn Tocci (00:33)
Yes, Thank you.
Michael Doyle (00:38)
2025 Boston Marathon spectator Alex.
Alex Cyr (00:41)
Closed spectator and not joined as always because you and I Michael have been sitting here all morning waiting for Kailin and feel complete now
Katelyn Tocci (00:48)
Yeah, I’m finally back.
thank you.
Michael Doyle (00:52)
Right. The Holy Trinity, we have rejoined again. And so we’re going to break down in this instant reaction podcast, like literally fresh in the mind, like Caitlin, like ran off the course, grabbed a banana cramped up like hell and then waddled to the Airbnb where we’ve got our little studio set up here. So we’re going to pick your brain about what the experience is like. And we’re also going to get into the elite races because Caitlin actually doesn’t even know what happened in the race.
Katelyn Tocci (00:55)
We are together.
You
even know who won. All I heard was someone yelled 202 202. Is that even true? No. I was like 202 Holy smokes.
Michael Doyle (01:32)
So we’ll break down the experience of riding the Boston Marathon from your perspective. And then we’ll jump into the women’s and the men’s races, which are super duper exciting. There’s a lot of like subplots we can get into in a second. Totally. OK. So first things first, Boston, you have run it, but it’s been like a million years since you ran it. It’s basically the races in some degrees very different. I’m actually curious to hear what you think was kind of like nostalgic and similar. The course is the same. the course remains.
Katelyn Tocci (01:41)
I can’t wait to hear.
Over 20.
Michael Doyle (02:00)
brutal. And so we walk out there first thing in the morning, meet you at like six something in the morning. And there’s just, I don’t know, it’s like every bus in the entire state of Massachusetts is there to take you guys out to the start.
Katelyn Tocci (02:15)
Yeah, was actually, it started with that nostalgia right away because I saw all the school buses and they all said, you know, Natick Public Schools, Methuen Public Schools, Framingham Public Schools. It was so cool seeing how everyone was like, wow, have they rounded up all the buses in the entire state?
Michael Doyle (02:30)
I don’t know. was like, is it 200 buses? Is it 300 buses? I have no idea how many buses it
Alex Cyr (02:36)
They
circled the Boston Commons basically, which is like a mile long, a mile circumvented park.
Katelyn Tocci (02:43)
Not only, not only all of the runners have to have to get on the buses, but then they use the buses for all of the drop bags for the end of the race. So you’re thinking there are so many buses. So that was number one, just being overwhelmed by the number of buses and being overwhelmed by the organization. Cause everyone was like shuffling us and telling us where to go and at how long it took to get everything done. I was like, we’re to be super early. You know, we got up at five. We’re going to be, we’re going to be ahead of the game.
get on the train at 6 15 and get in. And we literally got off the bus after all the getting our bag drop and getting on the bus and the ride and a little detour. I just heard that our bus driver took. So we got there and I was like, wow, guys, we have 20 minutes until the gun goes off. so, know, porta potty stop went up, basically jog to the corral and they said one minute and like one minute. So yeah, you need time.
Michael Doyle (03:43)
anxiety inducing just thinking about that.
Katelyn Tocci (03:44)
So
take all the time you need that I’m telling you, take the time you need because you need those three hours to get there.
Michael Doyle (03:51)
And you had the nightmare scenario where you just sort of like, just flicked at it very subtly there, but your bus took a wrong turn and drove way past. Yeah. Hoppington and you had to double back.
Katelyn Tocci (04:03)
Yeah,
we had to double back. I didn’t know at the time because Kelly, your wife and I were chatterboxing it the whole ride, having a great time. And we weren’t really paying attention, but she was like, wow, this is taking a long time because she knows. Like, yeah, it’s been an hour and 15 minutes and we’re just pulling up. So it was a little stressful because we had to kind of race to the corral. But we got there on time with one minute to spare.
Alex Cyr (04:27)
Overall, I need to ask you about food and fueling because like it’s an unusual situation where you’re waiting three hours from the time that you’re getting there to the time you’re racing. Did you bring like snacks or?
Katelyn Tocci (04:38)
I did, I ate a bagel and honey at like 5.30 in the morning, which is my usual, you know, pre-race meal. And then I brought two waffles with me, two like honey stinger waffles. Yes, I love those. It’s just any excuse to eat them. I brought a couple of those and I brought my bottle of Gatorade. And so I was just eating one of those every hour. And I also had a gel before I started. So I did eat like three more things before the race started. Cause we began at 10.25.
Michael Doyle (05:03)
Yeah. So like New York and Boston, both particularly tricky races because there’s this huge amount of lead time because you don’t start where you finish. So you have to track out there. And obviously there’s, you know, in this case about 30,000 people doing this race on an old country road, 26.2 miles out. the course, the experience.
Katelyn Tocci (05:25)
the experience. Go ahead. You’re gonna ask me something.
Michael Doyle (05:28)
Were you, first of all, were you expecting the Alex and I were the flyover was bananas to the fighter jets going, cause we heard them low like a minute later flying over us in downtown Boston.
Katelyn Tocci (05:36)
They were so.
We saw them and we just like looked up, I pointed with Victor and Jonathan, I was like, look at the fighter jets, my God. And it looked like they were so low, we heard them, they looked amazing.
Michael Doyle (05:49)
I get that every year, which is kind of a neat thing. The race starts. What’s that first couple of K like? Because it’s downhill.
Katelyn Tocci (05:52)
That was so cool.
It’s crowded.
Alex Cyr (06:01)
Yeah. Were you tripping over people? Yeah.
Katelyn Tocci (06:03)
This was, this was really tricky. And I think maybe, I’m, you know, since I’ve done so much trail running where there’s just not that many people, you never have this problem unless it’s a single track at the very beginning of a race. So I had a lot of trouble actually in the beginning, trying to figure out what to do. Cause I think if I try and weave, I’m going to waste a lot of energy. So I don’t want to do that, but actually I think it helped because with Ambie’s advice about not going out too hard, I couldn’t go out too hard.
I couldn’t because there was just no way for me to get around this many people on a narrow country road for the first maybe four or five kilometers. It was pretty tight. So yeah, the start of the race was a lot more crowded than I expected.
Michael Doyle (06:45)
And there’s a lot of people in this race. mean, it’s 30,000 people on like an old single lane in each direction, like an old style highway, right? Was the course, I mean, you haven’t run the race in over 20 years. You’re from Newton. We went and ran the second half of the course about a month ago when we were here. So you’ve got that fresh in your mind. But that first half, you probably hadn’t touched that pavement in a long time. How’d that go?
Katelyn Tocci (07:00)
Yeah.
No.
I didn’t. Yeah, I didn’t remember it at all. That’s for sure. I think when I ran this race is if those who are listening now had listened to me speak about it before. mean, I just kind of went out there not being really a runner. So I don’t even know how I got through. don’t know how I did it because today I’m destroyed. Spoiler alert. I think I expected it and and I had some people warn me that, you know, everyone says it’s downhill, but it’s not really downhill. And yeah, there are the downhills, but there are the uphills.
didn’t feel like there was a flat piece of road in the entire course. You’re either going uphill or going downhill. And I feel like it was just all very hard. So the beginning of the race didn’t feel like a cakewalk to me at all. And I didn’t push too hard to do that. like, I’m going to try to bank time in the beginning. Yes, I did go a little faster than the rest of the race, but that was the pace I was planning on doing for the whole race. That’s a different thing that happened. Yeah.
Michael Doyle (08:04)
It’s a different thing.
Alex Cyr (08:07)
long did you feel like you were encumbered by people around you?
Katelyn Tocci (08:13)
It was a while. It was maybe about probably over 5K. I felt like I was kind of stuck. Probably about until, yeah, like Boxin, like Boxin, probably about 5K. I’m grateful because if I had gone any faster, things just would have been more dire.
Alex Cyr (08:27)
It kept you on a set of rails.
Michael Doyle (08:30)
Well, we’re teased for later the elite race, but the men’s elite race in particular, the first 5k split was close to world record pace. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Cause it’s just so much downhill. They ran extremely, extremely. So they’re just free flowing all the way down. So before we get into the infamous Newton Hills, just snapshot in that first half, like what’s like a strong, enduring memory.
Katelyn Tocci (08:30)
It really did.
And they don’t get boxed in.
Alex Cyr (08:46)
I’ll
get bogged.
Michael Doyle (09:00)
I mean, if you’re able to take any of it in.
Katelyn Tocci (09:02)
Yeah,
it was actually, you know, it was really nice is that we kind of, we kind of put together a little team. Kelly, your wife, Jonathan, my running partner, Victor, my husband and I, we all ran together for a really good chunk in the beginning. It was so cool. it was, was, Jonathan and I were going to run together anyway. So we had that plan, but we weren’t expecting for Kelly. So it was great because we kind of helped each other along because we were all looking out for each other and making sure we were all there. We had a similar idea about
about pace and timing. And so it was just really awesome. So I think the best memory was just kind of making eye contact with who we were running with. I kind of feel that camaraderie of what was going on in the beginning of the race. And so I think that’s kind of what I and and I love seeing each of the signs like welcome to Framingham and welcome to Natick. And because I was like checking off boxes. Here I go. Here’s another town. Here’s another town. So think those are the two things I remember.
Michael Doyle (09:59)
From our preview podcast, Caitlin aced the exam of naming each town in the Boston Marathon course in sequential order. So you hit the fire station, you make the right, you’re in the hills. first, beforehand, Wellesley Scream Tunnel. Is it still as nuts as I remember it being?
Katelyn Tocci (10:08)
That was fun.
Loved
it. was insane. I saw people getting kissed everywhere.
Michael Doyle (10:25)
Yeah
Katelyn Tocci (10:29)
He went ahead, I don’t know, he hasn’t even told me yet how many kisses he stopped for. Yeah, I know. It was very fun. They were so loud. That was an amazing jolt of energy right there. And it was a really nice long strip around Wellesley College. was really fun. Yeah, so they’re extremely loud and amazing.
Alex Cyr (10:47)
First part of the race, getting to half, are you very conscious of your splits? Are you checking your 5k, 10k, 15k or are you more so going by feel?
Katelyn Tocci (10:53)
You know what, Alex, I did. I checked like the five and the 10 and the 15. And I was like, yeah, okay, I’m pretty much on track. Yep, I’m pretty much on track. I’m pretty much where I want to be. And I really started slowing down at some of the hills and then I just stopped checking them.
Alex Cyr (11:03)
And then.
Was it the Hills, Newton Hills that really started?
Katelyn Tocci (11:11)
It was even a little before that kind of I just I felt like around I don’t know why you know I don’t like to make excuses because I just you know I just but I mean things happen and they happen I was just cramping up a lot so once that started happening I just said okay well this this to me this is my race because I’m from Newton and I want to enjoy the Boston Marathon I’m from here so I just kind of decided okay I’m gonna have super fun I’m gonna run the best I can but I’m gonna enjoy all the moments when I got to the fire station I was like okay I grew up two miles from here
So I kept thinking of all of the landmarks. I was like, okay, I’m turning the corner. saw one of my mom’s best friends, like they went to elementary school together. And on the spectating. And they screamed for me, they were screaming her and her husband and her daughter, one of her daughters. And I looked over and I saw them, that was super exciting. So that gave me a nice little jolt going up one of the hills.
Michael Doyle (11:50)
wow, like on the course.
Katelyn Tocci (12:05)
And so I just started thinking, know, there’s the library one where I would go. There’s my high school down the street. It was kind of very nostalgic going through Newton and seeing all that. And I really enjoyed it. So I didn’t mind that I was like doing really poorly on the job.
Michael Doyle (12:21)
Now, OK, so we talked about in the preview, the sort of and also in the live show we did a couple of nights ago, the kind of the mirage quality of Heartbreak Hill, where it’s like if you don’t pay attention, you don’t realize you’re running Heartbreak Hill, because as as our colleague, Ami Burford noted that the first time he ever ran Boston, he got to the top of Heartbreak and asked when’s Heartbreak start? Like you just finished it because he had anticipated this like.
Everest like steep pitch. Now it is a tough hill. The five point five percent grade. goes on for quite a while. It kind of gnaws away at you. But the most challenging element obviously is it’s the fourth of the Newton Hills. Did you know you were on heartbreak when you’re when you’re on it?
Katelyn Tocci (13:03)
The
hill was the hardest for me. And I don’t know why. I felt like it was an eternity to get up it. Or it was the second. It was either the second or the third one that I felt was really, really long. And then once I got to Heartbreak, it could have been the amazing crowd that makes it go by a little faster. Because I didn’t feel that that one was as hard as the second or the third one that I felt was just an eternity. yeah, the hills were, they were hard. Just what you expect.
Michael Doyle (13:27)
And so me across the final hill, heartbreak, everyone says, hey, it’s just a nice rolling downhill all the way. like a magic carpet into the finish. No,
Katelyn Tocci (13:34)
It’s just downhill.
It is not. was like, well, Ambie said that there was, eight hill. I was like, didn’t count one hill. I counted a whole bunch of hills. Tiny little rolling hills there. So I was like, OK, well, this course. I just kept thinking, wow, this is really hard. It’s exactly what everyone says when they say Boston is Boston is Boston. Boston is Boston. It’s just so hard. And so I’m really excited to get to doing some writing on.
Alex Cyr (13:49)
A bunch of little tiny little daughters.
Katelyn Tocci (14:08)
If I think PRing is possible in Boston.
Michael Doyle (14:12)
Spoiler alert, the answer is no. Your piece is just going to be like it’s going to be the headline will be, can you PR at the Boston Marathon? And then the body of the text will just be no period. And that’s the end of the story.
Katelyn Tocci (14:25)
I know some people do and for those of you who are listening and have PR’d, congratulations.
Michael Doyle (14:30)
We’ve actually got a couple of PRs to talk about with the elite race. It’s another tease for the second half of this podcast.
Katelyn Tocci (14:37)
That’s incredibly, incredibly admirable. I admire anyone who can PR in this course because it was one of my slowest marathons ever.
Alex Cyr (14:44)
But also this is marathon wet for you now. Marathon four. you’re still quite early in your marathon include even though you’re an ultra runner and you’ve put in a whole lot.
Katelyn Tocci (14:46)
time.
Michael Doyle (14:54)
Alex, you must feel like quiet sort of vindication or just like a sense of pride right now that Caitlin has been saying nonstop since she’s walked into the Airbnb here that marathoning is so much harder than running ultras. yeah. And it’s just like,
Alex Cyr (15:11)
I feel vindication, but I also feel a little bit of fear.
harder than 10K.
Katelyn Tocci (15:20)
It is because remember in the ultras you go at a much easier pace because you’ve got to hold on for 100k and you can’t possibly push hard.
Michael Doyle (15:30)
and they haven’t paved the trails.
Katelyn Tocci (15:33)
Exactly.
Alex Cyr (15:33)
But this is early, but I do want to ask you, for me, these things usually come like a few days after doing a race, especially hard race. Is there like a teachable moment or a takeaway that you have and you look back on your race and think, I messed up here. I should have done this a little bit differently.
Katelyn Tocci (15:50)
You know, Alec, that’s exactly what I was trying to figure out on my hobble over here. I was like, what? What did I do wrong? Because I don’t, I haven’t figured it out yet, to be honest, because I would love to say, oh, you know what I did? I went out too hard. totally risked it, but I didn’t. I had seven or eight gels. I mean, I really took in the fuel. That wasn’t it. started cramping. So maybe, maybe next time I can try even more pre-hydration. Um, I wonder if that was it. Cause I don’t think it was, I pushed too hard. Cause you know, cramping can come from.
either dehydration or overexertion on the muscles. But I don’t think that was it. So I’m still trying to figure it out. Once I crack the code, I’ll let everyone know. But so far I’m like, hmm, maybe the course is just really, it’s just the course because I think I did everything right.
Michael Doyle (16:30)
the damned course
Alex Cyr (16:34)
Because going up and down hills excessively at a faster pace than what you’re used to in the ultras is also a potential cause for cramping.
Katelyn Tocci (16:40)
Exactly. Yeah. Like I was I was 150 meters and my running partner can can contest to this 150 meters from the finish line and my foot cramped completely. So I stopped. What? had to stop because I couldn’t put weight on it. And I was like, what do I do? What do I do? He’s like, just go. So I just come on foot. So I just like hobbled a little bit and like didn’t put this foot down so much. And then it then it went away and I was able to run. So fun stuff, guys. Run Boston. So
Michael Doyle (17:09)
So I was going to ask you about the ride on Hereford left on Boylston and then the 600 meters of glory. It sounds like you took 350 meters, decided to pause and take it in a little bit. You followed Amby Burfoot’s advice, which is to really soak up as much of Boylston as possible because it’s like kind of the great moment, especially for recreational runners. It’s like the great moment of celebration and all of running in a big way, right?
Katelyn Tocci (17:24)
was it?
Michael Doyle (17:38)
very few other experiences in your life are gonna be even close to that.
Katelyn Tocci (17:42)
do have to say, and if there are any photos or footage of me from the course, I was smiling 99 % of the time. So even though I had a really tough time, I just kind of accepted that I was having a rough race. And I just said, I’m literally just going to smile because that’s going to make me feel a little bit better. And I just did. I just kind of accepted it. I was like, this is okay. All right. Yep. It’s not going to be my time. And I, and my running partner can also contest that because he was right ahead of me, kind of kept looking back and I was like,
Smiling and smiling. was like, yeah, I can do it.
Alex Cyr (18:13)
Nothing worse than someone creeping up on you in a race smiling from cheek to cheek.
Katelyn Tocci (18:18)
You
Michael Doyle (18:18)
What the hell’s the matter with this person?
Katelyn Tocci (18:20)
Yeah, I was just trying to, you know, because they say that smiling makes you feel better. So that’s I was trying to do.
Alex Cyr (18:25)
Yogi
method.
Michael Doyle (18:25)
This
is the Kipchoge. Yeah, I’m not sure if it works that well when your foot is about to fall off. so all in all, obviously, Boston turns out the reputation is well earned. It’s a bit of a tricky course. Absolutely. We won’t hold you to this, but would you come back? Are you going to come back and do it someday again?
Katelyn Tocci (18:47)
I do it again.
Michael Doyle (18:48)
Yeah, yeah.
How
do I figure it out?
Katelyn Tocci (18:53)
I’ll want to do it again. I don’t know when, but I want to do it. Not next year. Next year I’m hanging out with you guys. I’m going to be on the live pod.
Michael Doyle (19:02)
Sounds
good. We did our own marathon of sorts or talking marathon where we did the live watch along podcast, which if you’re watching this or listening to this on through a podcasting app, thank you very much. you followed along, it was super successful. I thought it was a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. We’re to do it again.
Alex Cyr (19:22)
of
people asking about Caitlin. Half of what I was doing was monitoring the comments to see what the Caitlin meant.
Katelyn Tocci (19:24)
Thank you
Thank
you so much for everyone and their support. That’s so sweet to know people were cheering me on.
Michael Doyle (19:33)
And you got this neat metal and the metal is really nice. So. Yeah, because I know the Bank of America, which came on last year, you got kind of criticized last year for the metal because the metal kind of looked a bit cheap, which is a bit ironic considering it’s like the biggest bank in the US. They toned it down now.
Alex Cyr (19:36)
It’s very nice.
Katelyn Tocci (19:48)
Yeah, it was big and they
hit it a little bit there.
Alex Cyr (19:52)
It’s a heavy
Michael Doyle (19:53)
got some heft to it. And it’s shiny. Spike the unicorn there has got some glimmer to him or her. They? Who knows? Yes. Okay. We’re going to go for no pronouns for Spike. So let’s pivot out of that and into congratulations, Caitlin. Crazy good accomplishment.
Katelyn Tocci (19:55)
It’s real. I love.
Thank you.
I’m happy.
Michael Doyle (20:16)
And let’s go right into the elite races. Cause now Caitlin’s like looking on my laptop screen. It’s like, yeah, it’s like, okay. So we’re to tell you who You’re going to do the men’s or the women’s first.
Alex Cyr (20:27)
The men’s or the women’s first, Caitlin, you decide. Women’s. You’re most curious. Okay, we’re going to go women’s. So the women’s race was, in my opinion, much more exciting than last year, even though the last mile was a complete reversal, kind of a symmetrical copy of it. The start of the race, like the first two thirds of the race was not pedestrian like last year. Last year, everyone was hanging on waiting for someone else to make a move. That’s right. This year, the athletes were much hungrier. So
I think what was happening is that our, had to say two favorites in Imane Buriso and Yalem Zerf Yehuela in terms of time. And they knew that if they wanted a chance to win and not allow Helen O’Berry to win her third straight title, they needed to make this an honest race and go hard from the gun because O’Berry, as we know, is this 5,000 meter Olympic medalist. And if it’s left to a sprint, she wins. So the pace was a whole lot faster.
And that led to five women breaking away and then eventually four women really taking control. So this was Amani Buriso, Yalemzer Fiyawela, Helen O’Berry and Sharon Loquetti. Who everyone kind of forgot about from last year, but she was the runner up, right? O’Berry got the fame, Loquetti was runner up. And then this year, Loquetti came hungry. She took the lead. She…
put in a surge late in the race and only O’Berry followed and there you had it, the same two athletes.
Michael Doyle (21:55)
It
was like the literally the the exact same outcome in the last couple of miles that was last year. It was like if you’re Sharon Loquetti, you came in second last year and got outkicked in this fabulous final mile that O’Berry ran last year, which was like a mile for the agent, like one of the great final miles in any major marathon history. It’s like that must have been occupying so much real estate in Loquetti’s mind over the last year.
It’s like a haunting thing. And then lo and behold, what happens during the identical situation with a mile to go. And you could tell that low-cut he was like, I am having none of this.
Alex Cyr (22:34)
there was this storyline forming because you just felt that Lokedi was pissed at one point Yes, she’s leading Obiri instead of running next to each other Obiri is hiding right behind Lokedi and at one point Lokedi starts making hand gestures meaning like what are you doing?
Michael Doyle (22:39)
Literally she was pissed
Like she’s looking back and she’s saying something to her. I don’t know if there was an F bomb dropped in there or what, but she was like, you could tell she was like, she had frustration in her face and she was looking, she was like, are you going to come up here and, and, and, take, take your turn at the front here, or are you just going to sit on me the entire time? It was crazy. then that I think was fuel to the fire. Cause she just kept pushing and pushing and opened a gap much, uh, you know, obviously, uh, O’Berry won in the end, sort of in the same
Alex Cyr (23:19)
OK.
Michael Doyle (23:20)
No, last year. O’Berry won in the end in the same sort of fashion that Lochetti won this race, which is he just started to tighten the intensity up, ratcheted up and stretched O’Berry. Is that little underpass with about a K to go? And in that underpass, Lochetti probably put a few seconds on her, just within that underpass, coming out of it and ran just an incredible last kilometer of the race.
And all this to say that Lochetti seemed done for just 10 kilometers back. She fell off the lead group going through the Newton Hills and then somehow clawed her way back in the last two hills. And that penultimate and then the heartbreak hill, Lochetti worked her way back up the hills to the lead group somehow, which is I’ve never seen that before.
Alex Cyr (24:10)
No, and I’d love to hear her take on it. I took it as very smart cerebral racing because we know the physiology of a marathon, right? If you surpass your lactate threshold, you get in trouble really quickly. And so in theory, as an athlete, you see yourself getting close to that line and you feel like you can retreat and control yourself a little bit despite losing the pack in front of you. might do it, conserve your energy and then pick up the rest. But that’s incredibly mentally hard to do.
Michael Doyle (24:37)
Yeah,
we haven’t heard her take on it yet here, but I’m really fascinated to hear what she had to say about it because was it the fact that she was just, as you said, sort of like at her limits? Does she have confidence that she just needed to kind of back off and stay within herself? Or was it something where she was slipping and struggling and then somehow rebounded and pulled it together mentally and physically? don’t know. But it was really one these incredible things where it’s like a total comeback moment. And then this like
beautiful third act where she just closed the deal. mean, she got it done and she must just be, I mean, you’re elated because you won the Boston Marathon, a huge career achievement, but to do so in that fashion must have been so personal. And she was so clearly pissed off at O’Berry.
Katelyn Tocci (25:21)
That’s fine.
Alex Cyr (25:25)
When in looking back, I think what was happening was not that O’Berry was trying to sit and kick. I think O’Berry was just struggling.
Michael Doyle (25:30)
Yeah,
yeah. She was just hoping for, I think what you do in that situation when you’re a beer is like you’re going into a dark place suddenly and you’re starting to worry that you don’t have it and you’re just trying to hang on as much as you can. And you hope that maybe things will resettle and you can regroup and put in a final attack to win. But in that case, this was, it was all low caddy. She ran a beautiful race. so, so she comes in first, very comes in.
Then in third place.
Alex Cyr (26:02)
Yalemzer Fioella took third. Irene Ceptei in fourth place overtook Emanuele Burriso near the end of the race. So a bit of a surprise there. And then Burriso came in in fifth. On the American side of things, it felt like a change of the guard. You know, our American podium was Jess McClain in first in a time of 2.22, Annie Frisbee in second with a three minute personal best, and Emma Bates in third with…
Michael Doyle (26:18)
little bit.
Alex Cyr (26:31)
Des Linden, retired today, missing the podium. Sarah Hall, Kara D’Amato.
Michael Doyle (26:37)
Yeah, you probably don’t know that because this is like news to you because you were out running. So Deslinden dropped on her Instagram like at the start of the morning, just before the race started that this is her last professional race that she’s done racing on top. So and Jess McLean, if you’re unfamiliar with her, she came in fourth at the U.S. Olympic trials last year and just missed going to Paris and then was like.
Katelyn Tocci (26:50)
Wow, okay, yeah, news. Awesome.
Michael Doyle (27:04)
agonizing scenario, which we talked about Alex in the live watch along show. She was at the last minute. USATF called her up and said there might be an issue with one of our marathon runners. You’ve got to get on the plane and fly to Paris, which she did with just like days to spare and then hung around and then was told last minute, we actually don’t need you anymore. Just go cheer. And she said that she like would drink a beer on the side of the road on marathon day, watching them run. And then, of course, we know in retrospect that you know, O’Keefe.
who was the winner of the US Olympic trials, had obviously a serious injury and like limped through a couple of kilometers and then stepped off the course of Paris. So this is huge redemption arc for Jess McLean. She’s landed a deal with Brooks, which she was featured very prominently at the Brooks Hyperion house here on Newberry Street this week. And she delivered, that’s a three minute personal best for her too.
Katelyn Tocci (27:56)
That’s huge. exciting.
Alex Cyr (27:58)
She said an
interesting build up to this race. She’d been running 5,000 meters on the track and 10,000s, a half marathon. So she’d been racing a whole lot and yeah, she put it together.
Katelyn Tocci (28:08)
So.
Michael Doyle (28:09)
And we should also say, circling back to the overall women’s race, that I sort of blazed over the fact that this was a course record by quite a bit.
Alex Cyr (28:19)
yes. Yes. By two and a half minutes. So the previous record of 219 high, which, as we mentioned during the show was established well before Super Shoes and was probably bound to be broken, was destroyed today by the top three athletes. So your record holder is now Sharon Lucchetti.
Katelyn Tocci (28:37)
Awesome.
Michael Doyle (28:38)
Yeah, kind of a neat fact, actually, both of the men’s and the women’s course records were pre-Super Shoe records. Now the men’s record, spoiler alert, is still pre-Super Shoe. It was close, but our winner did not quite take it. Let’s segue into that, the men’s race.
Alex Cyr (28:57)
Men’s race was a massive battle. The men’s race actually, the first half was completely different from last year. The second half started looking a lot like 2024. So someone escaped. Totally escaped. But the first half of the race featured a bunch of hungry North Americans.
Katelyn Tocci (29:08)
Someone escaped. Okay.
Okay.
Michael Doyle (29:17)
Yeah,
like a big contingent of American white dudes and sunglasses at the front and an Aussie and
Alex Cyr (29:26)
Canadian and Aussie and Canadian. So you had Clayton Young and Connor Mance running side by side and then two figures in orange, the Puma athletes, Patrick Tiernan and Rory Linkletter. I had some feeling about Patrick Tiernan who’s a 207 marathoner and not a favorite to win this race, but he was looking so comfortable and he was wearing those shoes that everyone was talking about the faster Nitro Elite three. The first half of the race was me thinking is Patrick Tiernan going to pull something?
Eventually that didn’t quite happen.
Michael Doyle (29:56)
Sir is unfortunately no. He did a lot of work though.
Alex Cyr (30:00)
The regular contenders peeked their heads maybe after 10K and we started to see a whole lot of CSI Lemma, the defending champion. And at that point I started wondering, okay, well, maybe this is his time to repeat. He looked amazing last year, dealt with injury for the second part of the year and there he was again. And then maybe what, halfway through the race? He disappeared and then we heard the report that CSI Lemma was in fact out of the race.
Michael Doyle (30:22)
He just disappeared.
Katelyn Tocci (30:28)
He dropped out.
Alex Cyr (30:29)
in
Michael Doyle (30:29)
injury, presumably some sort of some sort of physical issue. And he’s obviously had major injury issues since Boston last year. You’re probably wouldn’t be surprised to learn that somebody has major physical problems after running the Bloody Boston Marathon. Yeah, so he said he was battling hamstring issues from last year, so it could have been that we don’t know. Speculate. So he’s out. like kind of the favorite and the reigning champion is out about halfway through. But there’s still a big group and
Katelyn Tocci (30:44)
I not, I believe you.
Michael Doyle (30:59)
The figures that are looming are it’s sort of surprising. Connor Mantz, Clayton Young, the boys from BYU, the American guys are in this group and they’re running really fast. They’re running, they’re spinning like 203 pace. Well deep into the race. They hit the Newton Hills and there’s this lead pack and they’re putting in sub 204, 204 pace.
through the Newton Hills and you keep thinking to yourself like, these are two guys, what’s going on here? Right. And then we had what I would describe as really like a textbook work of art level break by John career. My pre-race picked away the boss. Thank you very much. can go cash those receipts now.
Katelyn Tocci (31:50)
Yes, true.
Michael Doyle (31:54)
Literally the 20 mile marker, we saw it on screen and at 20 miles, he was like, all right, it’s go time. And he gapped the field like almost instantly.
Alex Cyr (32:05)
He was gone and I got to give it to you. See, you saw John career do something wild in Chicago last fall and that was split the second half of the struggle marathon in under an hour. And I wondered if you would be able to replicate that. And today I’d say his, his performance was Kipchoge ask. It was even his stride looked like the Kipchoge stride.
Michael Doyle (32:26)
You
noted that during the live all-chalon feed. that it was like he’s just got this really sort of elegant, efficient stride that was, you’re right, kind of Kipchogean or Kipchoge-esque in its manner. And although he did start to falter, he luckily built up a massive lead after that 20-mile break. He put 18 seconds on the group really quickly. And then it was just kind of… And then that group shattered apart very quickly. And then it ended up being…
Young career out front. he put on over, I was like 30 to 40 seconds at one.
Alex Cyr (33:01)
We
a minute over the chase pack at one point.
Michael Doyle (33:04)
And then the chase pack turned into three athletes, including Connor Manz. And it was becoming very clear that Connor Manz was having the race of his
Alex Cyr (33:15)
Yeah, so Connor Manse, Cybrian Coutute, and Alphonse Félix Simbu. Simbu of Tanzania, Coutute of Kenya, and Manse going. Three men abreast and you
Michael Doyle (33:26)
And they
were side by side by side. They were not. were not known as.
Katelyn Tocci (33:29)
was drafting.
Alex Cyr (33:30)
drafting. No one was taking the lead. And I found myself rooting for Mance because there was an American record on the line. He was getting close to Ryan Hall’s 204.58, which he did in a year with a massive headwind, no, sorry, tailwind, no huge tailwind this year. This would have been Mance’s year to properly claim that Boston Marathon American record.
Michael Doyle (33:52)
Imagine that would have been he would have been two for two on the year because he got he nabbed the American half marathon record in Houston earlier this year, which also Ryan Hall previously had from I believe it was like back in 2008 or something a long time ago. And then Ryan Hall’s 204.58 was from that tailwind year 2011. And he was on pace for that until I mean, he was on pace. He was very close in the end.
So this is how plays out. John Carrier, we’re watching, we’re watching. It seems like he totally has it in the bag, but little did we know he was kind of starting to fade in the last few kilometers. So he makes a right on Hereford, the left on Boylston. And then the broadcast cuts back to the chase group and they’re making a right on Hereford, left on Boylston. like, wait a minute, they’re not supposed to be there yet. And then we realized they were like just seconds behind.
Katelyn Tocci (34:47)
Everybody.
Michael Doyle (34:52)
And career started doing the look over the shoulder thing. He didn’t seem too worried, but he took a couple of peaks and but then he got it done because he had just enough gap. He ends up winning. He wins by 19 seconds overall. OK, but then the sprint for the podium was and it was side by side by side. Cybrian Coutuite, Conor Mance, Felix Simba.
Katelyn Tocci (35:12)
Exciting.
Michael Doyle (35:22)
And it was like right down to like, I’d say the last hundred meters when, when Simbu and, uh, Cachute pulled away from Mance, which is kind of heartbreaking. Mance ended up in fourth place, but he still ran,
Alex Cyr (35:37)
205.08 for man’s right so a two minute personal best.
Michael Doyle (35:42)
Two and change, was almost three minutes.
Katelyn Tocci (35:44)
And on Boston, of course. That’s amazing.
Michael Doyle (35:47)
He’s
just stepped into another echelon.
Katelyn Tocci (35:50)
Totally.
Alex Cyr (35:51)
I wonder how Manz feels right now because objectively this is a phenomenal performance but on paper he missed the podium, he missed the American record by 10 seconds but hey Connor you got this Strava segment again for those who have been following
Michael Doyle (36:07)
He stole it back from you. Yeah, well he was running like 203 pace.
Katelyn Tocci (36:08)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m serious.
Alex Cyr (36:13)
He destroyed it. He it by like 15 seconds.
Michael Doyle (36:17)
OK, yes, so man’s there’s elite athletes. Not there’s not a lot of elite. There’s a good number of elite athletes, a lot of American elite athletes that that log their runs on Strava that have Strava accounts. And then there’s Alex here. most of the Strava segments for the Boston Marathon course, rightfully so, belong to elite athletes that are running the Boston Marathon. And they happen to be, you know, they happen to to to put it on their watch. Right.
So Connor Manson, think was third overall in the Strava segment.
Alex Cyr (36:48)
It was
Michael Doyle (36:52)
kilometer 33 Newton Hill segment. Alex goes out last month when we’re visiting to do a live show at the Boston run show and we do a 10 mile run in and we run the Newton Hill so that Caitlin can get the experience to see what it’s like, remind herself of the torture and Alex has to do a workout. So he hammers the Hills and then afterwards he discovers he passes Connor Manz on the leaderboard for that segment. Good moment. And you talked to him on Friday and pointed this out to him to which he was like, who the hell are you?
Alex Cyr (37:21)
A. He did not know who I was obviously and B. Told me I hope you enjoy having that segment from me because you have four days and then I’m gonna get it.
Michael Doyle (37:29)
and he was right. right. He’s not a guy known for his swagger, but in that moment, his swagger was well earned.
Katelyn Tocci (37:31)
You
Alex Cyr (37:36)
I think he had a fair grounds to think that he was going to beat me on the… You don’t even have to swagger if you’re a con man to guess this.
Michael Doyle (37:43)
No. So he enters a new echelon as a runner. And even his teammate, Clayton Young, you know, handled himself quite well, finished seventh place and PR by about a minute. He ran a 2 0 7 0 4 and your boy Roy Linkletter, he was fired up coming across. Yes. Because he was in a little sprint with with with Clayton Young and he just put a little gap on him and then just start doing the fist pumps, arm swings.
Katelyn Tocci (37:46)
Absolutely.
Alex Cyr (38:10)
207 02 for Rory link letter, which is a whole minute PR. Great.
Michael Doyle (38:15)
Boston. We
all know is sort of like there’s your PR and your Boston PR and usually it’s your Boston PR is slower than your PR. In this case, it’s both for these guys, which is incredible.
Katelyn Tocci (38:27)
So you can PR in Boston.
Michael Doyle (38:30)
Here.
Alex Cyr (38:31)
In theory, can.
Michael Doyle (38:33)
Be
like, no, period. then a little star and then the star says, unless you went to bring him to young university or which would be the case for all three of those guys, actually.
Alex Cyr (38:44)
Or you’re a gentleman by the name of Ryan Ford.
Michael Doyle (38:49)
Right.
none of us had ever heard of Ryan Ford. He’s the third American. He ran 208 flat. He was 10th place overall. He’s Iowa State.
Alex Cyr (38:52)
We googled the crap out of him.
27 year old now, but he ran for Iowa State.
Michael Doyle (39:06)
So there is a new name in the American Marathoning scene. A 208 flat is an incredible way to introduce yourself to the To The Rats run message boards. So congratulations to all these athletes. All in all, really fun race to watch. I thought both of the races were I thought the women’s race was probably a little bit more entertaining than the men’s race was. The stakes felt like, you know, just
Katelyn Tocci (39:08)
Yeah.
Michael Doyle (39:35)
pressure was very, high. Even though the whole half of the race is definitely worth going back and rewatching if you can. And the, and the, the little clinic that my boy John career put on the last 10 K of the race that mostly is how you run a marathon. mean, maybe the slowing in the last couple of K is not a great, great thing, but ultimately he ends up running two Oh four 45. That’s not far off the course record. It’s well for him.
Alex Cyr (39:37)
The last mile was unbelievable.
Katelyn Tocci (39:39)
I got a lot.
Will.
Michael Doyle (40:05)
All right, guys.
Katelyn Tocci (40:06)
What a weekend.
Alex Cyr (40:07)
weekend I gotta catch a plane I gotta get going and Caitlin are you gonna be able to get up from this couch
Katelyn Tocci (40:10)
here
I
may need help, so I’m gonna wait until we’ve stopped recording.
Michael Doyle (40:19)
maybe in this seated position for the next two to three.
Katelyn Tocci (40:22)
How
long do you guys have this Airbnb for? That’s good news.
Michael Doyle (40:24)
tomorrow morning. you
may have to throw you over the shoulder and carry you to the bar. Yeah. So we’ll close with your what’s going to be what’s your enduring memory right now at least of the Boston Run? Like what’s the vision that you’re going to have?
Katelyn Tocci (40:42)
I’m going to say that because I’m usually I am a very competitive runner. I’m very competitive with myself. I’m so competitive. And today I put competitive Caitlin aside and I actually just said I’m just going to. Sorry. Enjoy the race. It was really nice. yeah.
Alex Cyr (41:03)
We’re proud of you, man.
It’s funny because we talk about running, we engage with running all the time, it’s just by the way things are. It’s not often that one of us actually gets to go and put everything on the line. So it was cool to see you do that today. Thank
Katelyn Tocci (41:19)
proud
of you. Thanks guys.
Michael Doyle (41:20)
So Caitlin, are we going to like do an impromptu trip to Vancouver in two weeks and watch Alex run the 10K?
Katelyn Tocci (41:25)
that would
be fun. one week. In one week. I’ve always wanted to go to Vancouver too. It’s a lovely city.
Alex Cyr (41:35)
Please come, we’ll do a live- I’ll do a live instant reaction afterwards and it’s only a quarter of the distance so if Kaelin can do it, I can do it.
Michael Doyle (41:41)
Exactly. All right. We’ll wrap it at that. This was the, I think it’s, I don’t know if it’s going to be our last piece of content from Boston, because we’ve got so much still in the hopper. So make sure that you subscribe to our newsletter, which apart from right now, because you’re taking a little quick break here, Caitlin pilots the newsletter. It goes out seven days a week, five five Eastern time. can subscribe to that website or we’ll put it in the show notes as well. And of course,
Don’t already subscribe to the podcast. By all means, do subscribe to our YouTube channel. We’ll be doing this watch along live stream future major marathons and other big events. An unmitigated success. We’ll be doing.
Katelyn Tocci (42:14)
Please do.
We’re doing London.
Michael Doyle (42:31)
think we’re going to do something for London. Our our colleague, Jessie is going to be in London. Okay. We’re to have some eyes and ears on the ground. So keep an eye out on our site and our social channels for that and our YouTube channel for that as well. And also the newsletter will inform you of all this stuff. But live shows, I think in the fall.
was a huge success for us. Boston’s amazing. All right, guys. Until next time.
Katelyn Tocci (42:58)
All right.
Alex Cyr (43:01)
Jinx.
